Reactions to Stu Parker's Reactions to John Gruber

By Max Jacobson ·

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Hey Stu!

I just remembered these blogs and read your newish post “Meh” which was a real bummer!

When you started this project, I was mostly happy to read it because it promised to be measured and thoughtful but I’m afraid it’s become very ranty and unpleasant.

Here’s you on your about page:

I understand Gruber’s market is the Apple allied, that much is not lost on me, but regardless I feel compelled to say something about it when it gets out of hand, or he becomes too sure of his own opinions. Otherwise I tend to agree with Gruber on a lot of stuff he says, but this blog isn’t for the stuff I agree with. You can safely assume that everything on DF that isn’t mentioned here is something I love and agree with fully.

That’s the guy whose thoughts I want to read. Not this guy (from today):

John Gruber has made himself a nice comfortable living selling sarcastic garbage to the lowest common denominator. It’s funny, though, because the lowest common denominator in this case is taken from some of the wealthiest and supposedly most intelligent people in the world: Apple consumers.

If that’s your perspective, then I think you’ve been dishonest about your goal here.

Who cares if Gruber makes a good living? So do a lot of people.

I’ve only been emerged in this for a little while, but as far as I can see it only becomes more and more absurd the deeper I get into it. Every Apple-centered forum or website on the internet acts like Apple is the biggest underdog in the world, and in the same breath they trumpet Apple’s success they also sneer and viciously attack anything that doesn’t go along with their narrative, as if their position is precarious.

I haven’t hung out in any Apple forums, so I don’t really know if what you’re saying is even true, but from reading sites like DF (which have undoubtedly affected/informed my perspective), my feeling is that while Apple is a highly profitable company, it’s not motivated purely by money, but also by some underdog principles like a commitment to seamlessness and aesthetics, which other companies will forego if it means making a few dollars. It’s not the only company with extra-commercial priorities, of course (nor even the only one with those particular priorities); Google has done some great stuff in the name of openness and Amazon has done some great stuff to promote literacy¹, and at their best, these companies are able to marshall their extra-commercial priorities so that they align with commercial success. As a consumer, you know which priorities appeal to you, and that’s probably the company whose products you tend to prefer.

Some people are more dramatic or emotionally invested than others, but c’mon: are Apple fans any worse than Android die-hards? I don’t think so. Obnoxious people are obnoxious, all over the map. Gruber’s not, even if some of his readers are.

Then you went off on a tear about whether or not the MacBook Air is a netbook (which I’ll quote for posterity):

The “Apple has never made a netbook” thing cracks me up the most: the MacBook Air is indisputably a 11” netbook. Yes, it costs $1000 as opposed to $300, and it’s built accordingly—if you took an HP Mini and poured another $700 into it, you don’t think it’d have the same specs as a MacBook Air? The fact remains: the Air is Apple’s entry into small, super portable, lightweight laptops, a.k.a. netbooks.

But because Steve Jobs said at some time that netbooks are just “cheap laptops” that suck at everything, Apple fans can’t just let it go. It’s obviously not a netbook because Steve Jobs wouldn’t have made a netbook; and on top of that it’s not even priced like a netbook, so obviously it’s not one.

Only problem I have with this is facts: The MacBook Air was announced and released in 2008, the same year netbook sales were heating up and starting to steal market share away from normal laptops. The Air was a retaliatory reaction: “You want small laptops? OK, here’s a small laptop, only it’s not cheap, because it’s made by Apple.” 2 years later: “Still not small enough for you? Here’s an 11”, the same size as most netbooks these days, and the smallest non-netbook Apple has ever made!”

In the end the important question is this: Why does it matter if the Air isn’t a netbook? Why can’t it just be agreed that the Air is a $1000 netbook? Who even cares so much that you have to insult some random guy on the internet who says it is?

And maybe I missed the context for this debate because I pretty much agree with you and think this is a complete non-issue. I mean, it’s just semantics. Whatever.

I like your point about the timing of the Air. I think it might be more accurate to call the Air Apple’s response to the netbook craze.

How swept up do we need to get in these terms though? Are “netbooks” an interesting thing to talk about? Are “ultrabooks” then also interesting? If “ultrabooks” are a thing, then the Air is an ultrabook and not a netbook. I mean, right? But if ultrabooks aren’t a thing, then the Air can be a netbook. And if netbooks aren’t a thing, then they can all just be “laptops”.

I have a netbook (one of the Dell Minis that just got discontinued) and I fucking love it. It’s a complete piece of shit that can’t play a video file without burning up my thighs, but I’ve written more on it than any other computer. It’s basically a digital typewriter, because it can’t do much else. The best. The Air isn’t that because it’s a fully-functional, high-quality machine, but yeah, sure, they’re approximately the same size, so they do have that in common, you’re absolutely right.

I’m not saying Apple is better because they haven’t made a super-cheap laptop. I love my netbook even though it kind of sucks. Apple doesn’t want to make a laptop that kind of sucks. I think that’s kind of cool. I do! And I likewise think it’s cool that Dell made such an affordable machine. But I’m not surprised to see them moving on. From a business perspective, Apple’s strategy seems to have been better, for whatever that’s worth.

I have to go back to the FOX News comparison because I can’t think of anything else in the media that really compares to the sheer amount of angry delusion I see across hardcore Apple fans. Only people like Bill O’Reilly really summon the same amount of “WTF?” from me.

I love my iPhone, and I love my iPad, but the sheer amount of ignorant hyperbole and ridiculous attempts to twist logic or redefine things in order to trumpet Apple just leaves me with such a bad taste in my mouth, I find myself hoping that Apple fails one day (despite certainty they will, inevitably) just so I can jump up and down and shout “I told you so!” at all the snide Apple fans who have talked shit on me over the last few days.

Not sure how to reply to this, except to say that you must be hanging out on the wrong message boards.²

This is only vaguely on-topic but I had a thought that you might find interesting. Wouldn’t it be funny if Gruber slowly turned on Apple? Like, Google paid him some ungodly sum of cash to sell himself out and start criticizing Apple and praising Google. Now that Jobs is gone, things are starting to fall apart, he can write. I don’t know how much influence he has. Obviously, most Apple users don’t read DF, but a lot of people do, and the ripple effect could be pretty big. Think he could bring Apple down? How long would it take? How would he do it?

Apple alienate people with gloss, high price tags, and restrictions. Apple fans alienate people with pretension and over-defensiveness over “their company”. Based on what I saw over the weekend—10 Android phones for every 1 iPhone in the wild—and the general opinion of every day people I talk to—that Apple is too restrictive and that the most important thing is the size of the screen on the phone—I don’t think Apple’s reign is going to last very long.

I have no idea if your anecdotal evidence is true. Maybe! It doesn’t bother me if some people reject Apple, though. We’ll see if it happens on a mass scale. We’ll see if I do. Who knows?

Honestly, they’re just not set up to be accepting of any sort of reign over anything. Their fans don’t want people to like Apple products, they want people to love them and commit to them fully like it’s some sort of sick cult lifestyle. You can’t like Apple and discuss them in anything less than the most favorable of terms (don’t you dare say the Air is a netbook, that’s one of Steve’s dirty words) without being shouted down.

Uh… Really? This sounds like a straw man to me. Who are you talking about? No one I read.

That’s not really the sort of corporate culture people want to get into. It’s like choosing to be a fan of a football team whose fans are known for bludgeoning people to death. Sure, some will go ahead, but most will recoil in horror and choose a less extreme path.

Is it like that, though? haha.

In all my years being immersed in Google and Google fans I never saw much of anything like this. When I’d wander into people discussing Google there was never a huge Google fan insulting everyone else on the defensive. It was usually just a bunch of technology-minded people who loved the internet talking about the pros and cons (not just the pros) of what Google has been doing lately. When Apple would be brought up most people would just say, “Meh,” and move on.

Are you anti-passion? “Meh” might be my least favorite word. I’m not saying you have to be passionate about the tech you like, but if someone is, that’s great in my book. People build a relationship with their stuff. That’s normal. There’s a time for dispassionate discourse (and if you listen to Gruber’s podcast, you’ll know calling him dispassionate might be an understatement) but there’s also a time for goony dorkouts, if it manifests in 11 hour waits to buy a phone or tattoos or whatever. I wish more people would dork out about Google because Google rules.

You usually know when you’re losing a fight when you have to be on the defensive all the time. Apple, and more just the Apple fans themselves, have always been on the defensive. They’ve been on the defensive for so long they know no other way to be. They’re going to be defending Apple against people on the internet even when there’s 50 Android devices for every 1 iOS device in the wild. I guess that’s alright, they’ve got plenty of practice.

I just don’t know who you’re talking about here. If you’re talking about Gruber, then I dunno, you must be reading a different site than I am. If you’re reading random dummies in forums and message boards, then I dunno… I’d recommend you stop.

It’s funny because there was a brief window where they were winning, though I suppose I’m unsure. I am assuming there was one moment where the iPhone was the best selling phone and Android market share was below iOS. I wonder what that felt like, especially to someone like John Gruber who I can imagine suffering from erectile dysfunction on days that Apple stock drops a bit, to actually be winning for once in Apple’s entire history. Did they celebrate? Did they cheer? Did they let down their guard for that day, or week, and just enjoy the products they purchased without thinking too much about the people who dislike them and don’t buy them?

Or did they just spend that time period staunchly defending Apple against all attacks, saying that Android is a POS that will never measure up to iOS, that it’s just some copy cat that Apple will sue out of existence and will never matter in the long run?

Ha! What are you talking about??? That’s what we do every day. Who is this weird fantasy character you’re haunted by Stuart??

And the carriers prefer Android because Android gives them control.

Same reason Windows succeeded, Gruber. Why is it only the Apple fans who insist, over and over again, that Android vs iOS isn’t the same battle as Windows vs Mac OS? ‘cause boy, I tell you, it’s only looking more and more similar every day, especially when it comes to market share.

Stuff like this, insisting that Android is doomed because some old POS mobile OS didn’t succeed cracks me up the most. While Gruber would absolutely destroy any article that said something similar about Apple, he trumpets and quotes this one of course.

First of all, he’s not saying that Android is doomed. In fact, he didn’t even say anything in that post! Let alone play a trumpet! It’s pure extrapolaton on your part. You’re seeing what you want to see!

But let’s say he’s implying that Android is doomed (though he’s not). Is he saying that Android is doomed because Windows Mobile failed? No! He’s saying that Windows Mobile failed, and now Android is doing the same thing. Why do you read that and have the reaction that you have? Why immediately pull the “Gruber is biased” card? Why not read the article and reflect on it? Maybe it’s a good article. Maybe it makes good points. Maybe Android should change course, but slightly. Do you disagree with the article?

Android owners were screaming back then about long delays in getting upgrades […]

Yes, this is the same batch of screaming “owner”-types who created the iPhone antennagate. Over-zealous technology-fellating fanbois going insane over the smallest thing that annoys them. Fact: normal people didn’t care about antennagate, and they don’t care about Android’s “updategate” despite how exhaustively the Apple-allied are pushing it.

Stu, will you please attribute your quotes? I have a hard time telling who’s saying what sometimes. Thanks.

Guess what Stu?? I agree with you here! Despite fairly widespread coverage of “antennagate”, the iPhone 4 was crazy successful. Normal people didn’t care, by and large. I’m sure the same is true for this update thing.

But I think the difference is this: despite how much people care about it, the antenna thing turned out not to be a big deal, but this update thing might. Even if normal people don’t care, it can still matter! I’m not super familiar with the matter³, but I can’t see how it doesn’t matter, especially for power users who like to have the newest thing as soon as it’s available.

Anecdotally, I’ve talked to a few friends who use Android phones and it doesn’t seem to bother them. They like what they have and don’t mind if it stays that way until they get their next phone.

That’s fine!

But I know I’d be gazing jealously at people on the subway doing the whole facial unlock thingy. I already am doing that for Siri, which I don’t have on my iPhone 4.

Sometimes, for argument’s sake, it’s convenient to discuss “normal people” and sometimes it’s not. When we’re talking about what will succeed with the mass market, that’s where normal people come in. But if we’re talking about what’s best? I don’t know. Normal people are fine, I guess, but I’ll stick with the nerds.

Time will tell if this fragmentation and these upgrade difficulties will hurt Android in the market. Maybe not. But it can still be a sucky thing.

Of course, there’s an Apple fan pushing their misinformed agenda in the comments for that article:

because downloading crap from the web (with generically hacked drivers), posted on questionable forums and created by anonymous hackers, then installing it on your device is a very secure process.

This is why Android is infected with trojans … the users are some of the dumbest and completely clueless people in the world.

Someone who clearly knows absolutely nothing about what they’re talking about. I wish I could find that tweet about how John Gruber’s audience is “the most opinionated and least informed” when it comes to blog commenters, because this is the perfect example.

What does “generically hacked drivers” even mean, and where do you get this idea? How is XDA a “questionable forum”? How is someone like cyanogen “anonymous”? I’m assuming he’s being sarcastic about the “very secure process”, even though it is, because you install it right on your device.

And trojans? The only wide spread reported Android trojan comes from pirated software and not the actual Android Market. If you pirate something and get a trojan, I suppose you deserve it. You can also get trojans from pirated iOS apps, but let’s not point that out because that would be unbiased.

Here’s my counterpoint: stop reading and replying to dummies! They’re not worth your time.

How do you know that guy is even one of Gruber’s readers? I can see that it would be convenient for your point, but there’s no way of knowing that!

Anyway, my point, if I even had one a while ago when I started writing this, is that it’s tiresome. I don’t know why I feel the compulsion to seek out the ignorant, the least informed, the most unjustly opinionated on the internet, but I am going to start trying to ignore it.

Good! Great! Let’s have some truly productive discussions. I’m excited.

Besides, I’d never make any difference anyway. John Gruber is laughing all the way to the bank, the same way Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, and Sarah Palin are. They’ve found ways to harness their heavily-biased ignorance and sell it to the lowest common denominator for the highest price they can manage by turning mundane bullshit into polarizing lifestyle or moral choices. It’s lucrative for them, but just like The Daily Show demonstrates: you can try to make a living poking holes, making fun of the ignorance of these people, but you’ll never get through to them or anyone who listens to them, and I’m just not paid enough to care.

It’s an interesting comparison. I don’t really want to agree with it, but maybe I do. I just like Gruber a lot more than those cited.

David Foster Wallace would never, ever have gone for this type of “writing” slash “entertaining” slash “pandering” that Gruber, et al, engage in. That’s why Gruber comparing himself to DFW is the biggest joke out of everything I’ve covered here. Honestly, it’s just sad. DFW left art behind when he died. What will John Gruber leave behind? A bunch of pathetic, snide comments about a company who cares absolutely nothing for him. Clearly DFW and Gruber have a lot in common.

(Actually, DFW read some pretty questionable stuff.)

I agree that it’s a lofty ambition and you’re probably right to make fun of him… as long as you don’t bristle when I make fun of you for comparing yourself to Jon Stewart.

Take care,

Max

(via johngruber-deactivated20120326)